eBible Fellowship

Chris: Let me just say that I do not know anything or have not learned anything concerning timing. At this point, I do not know exactly what God is doing concerning timing in regards to His coming, so I would rather not get into this. Also, certain questions that might involve this information or understanding or that might involve having knowledge of doctrines related to the time, I would rather not get into at this point.

I am praying for wisdom and studying, but we have to wait on God. I do not think that speculating serves any purpose. In other words, if someone asks, “Is this a possibility?” and the answer is that, “Yes, that is a possibility,” etc., I do not think that this is going to help us. We need to know what the Bible is saying. We do not need to just be discussing possibilities. We can do that privately, but not in a group setting like this.

Lord willing, in a few weeks, maybe in early May, I do hope to begin a Bible study again. A few times during the week, we will have a couple of Bible studies, maybe two or three days per week. Then on Fridays, we will have a Bible study followed by a question and answer session like this.

I hope to begin this week-night Bible study in the book of 1^st Samuel. There is a lot of information in 1^st and 2^nd Samuel that we are familiar with because we have read it, but we have not really studied it. I am hoping that we can shortly go through 1^st Samuel.

Since this is such a big project and a difficult task, what we will do is to continue to study 1^st Peter and 1^st Samuel at the same time. Then if we reach a problem area in 1^st Samuel with some verses that might take extra time to study or where we cannot find an opening, then we will go back to 1^st Peter and we will continue there. I think that we will be able to work through the whole 1^st Epistle of Peter, and so we will continue there until the information in 1^st Samuel opens up. That way, we are not forcing anything as we wait on God. We might not even go through every single verse in 1^st Samuel; because if we do not know it, we cannot pretend that we do.

Anyway, this is the plan, Lord willing, for early May. We will begin a study in 1^st Samuel and begin to work through that book.

 

1^st Question: Where in the Bible does it teach that an angel, a messenger, or a ministering spirit can be someone other than Christ or man?

Chris: God tells us that there are angels. For instance, He refers to fallen angels in Revelation 12. It says in Revelation 12:7:

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

We know that “Michael” is referring to Christ and that “the dragon” is referring to Satan. We also know that Satan himself was an angel who fell into sin and who took some of the angels with him.

It says in Revelation 12:9:

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

These angels are spirit beings. We read in Hebrews 1:14 something that no longer applies to the fallen angels but does apply to the angels who did not sin and go along with the devil. It says:

Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

So we definitely know that Satan and the fallen angels, the demons, are spirits. They are not men and they are not God in any sense. They are a different and a particular type of creation: a spirit being called an angel.

The Bible also tells us that not all of the angels fell, which means that there were other angels who did not sin. They were good angels who remained in Heaven. When Jesus makes the statement, “Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels,” this is referring to these good angels.

They definitely exist. They have a particular role that God has assigned them of being “ministering spirits” to the “heirs of salvation.” Since they are invisible to our eyes, we do not know what they do or how they work; God takes care of that.

 

2^nd Question: Since you are saying that Jesus was not called the Son of God until the point when He was resurrected, what was Jesus’ relationship to God back in Genesis when God is referred to in the plural as 'elohiym? Was He the Son of God at that point?

Chris: You are referring to Genesis 1:1:

In the beginning God ['elohiym]…

This is a plural word for God. On one hand, this could be translated as “Gods,” but the King James translators correctly translated this in the singular as “God”:

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

God is Jesus and Jesus is God, and we do know that the Bible tells us that Christ created the world as the Son or that He created all things as the firstborn. God is just not giving us all of the names of His person at this point in this one verse. He is giving us one particular name, 'elohiym, which teaches us of the Trinity and that God, who is one yet three, created the world.

This is what our minds cannot understand, and yet we cannot try to dissect the Trinity and say that the Father did not create, because Jesus is the Father. He is one with the Father.

So even though, on one hand, God says that the Son created the world, this is just really information that God is giving us to let us know that the atonement had already taken place at that point.

 

3^rd Question: Can you please look at 2 Corinthians 12:7-10? We suffer persecution and we suffer as we combat sins in our lives and this may sometimes be painful. How does a child of God rejoice in these sufferings?

Chris: We read in 2 Corinthians 12:7-10:

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

These things are not pleasant, and yet let us look at this again. This says:

…Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities…

This is not indicating that someone is enjoying them at all. This is just indicating that the child of God is glorying in his weakness; that is, we recognize our own weakness and our own failings and our own limitations as we give God the glory. We are recognizing that His grace is all-sufficient and able to bear us up and keep us. When we are weak, then we are living through His strength.

It does say in verse 10:

…I take pleasure in infirmities…

But this is not referring to the kind of pleasure that someone normally has. We are all familiar with infirmities and we do not really enjoy them; but in so far as this leads to glorifying God, then we can be thankful for them.

Sometimes we look back at our trials and at our inflictions, at our infirmities, and we see how God has worked through them and we are very thankful to Him for them. Again, in this sense, we take pleasure in them.

 

4^th Question: Does the word “again” in the phrase in 1Peter 1:3, “His abundant mercy hath begotten us again,” referring to being born again or saved?

Chris: This is not the normal word for begotten. If you look up the word “begotten” in the Strong’s Concordance, it will only give one other reference. The only other reference for this word is found in 1Peter 1:23:

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

In this verse, we again see a reference to being “born again” and it involves the living Word of God, just like in 1Peter 1:3 where it says:

…his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope…

This is a word that God is using because we are “dead in sins.” We are dead in our trespasses and sins; therefore, when He makes us new creatures, it is as though we are born again. We were born physically into the world the first time and God then arranges for us to experience the second birth.

Nicodemus asked Jesus, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?” Then Jesus explained, “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” This is definitely what is in view in 1Peter 1:3.

 

5^th Question: In regards to the word “hope,” as in the “Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope,” can we look at Romans 15:4-5 and 13?

Chris: We read in Romans 15:4:

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

This word “hope” is referring to something very substantial, to Jesus. It is through the comfort of the Scriptures that Christ enters into someone’s life, as we read that “faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Who is this “faith” that saves? It is Christ; and so this is a very similar verse.

Then it says in Romans 15:5:

Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

Then we read in Romans 15:13:

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Yes; He is the “God of hope.”

When we look at the spiritual attributes of God, we find in just about every case that He is a God of faith, truth, wisdom, etc.

Let us take a look at Ephesians 6 where we read about the “armour of God.” It says in Ephesians 6:14-17:

…having your loins girt about with truth…

Christ is truth. It continues:

…and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

Christ is righteousness.

And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Christ is our peace.

Above all, taking the shield of faith…

Christ is the faith that saves. It is not our faith; it is His.

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

There is actually another verse elsewhere that speaks of “an helmet, the hope of salvation”; but these words are all synonyms that God is using to point us repeatedly, again and again, to the Lord Jesus. He is the embodiment of all of these things and many more. All of the great spiritual blessings that the Bible speaks of are all in one Person; they are in the Lord Jesus.

 

6^th Question: Did Samuel go to Heaven? In 1Samuel 28:3, he is dead. In 1Samuel 28:19, Samuel is telling Saul that he and his sons will be with him, yet the Bible teaches that Saul was not a saved man.

Chris: We have to read the chapter of 1Samuel very carefully. We read that Samuel dies. What does the Bible tell us when a believer dies? Where does a believer go?

The Bible tells us that “to be absent from the body” is to be “present with the Lord.” Believers are to be with the Lord in Heaven.

God had departed from Saul. He was in spiritual blindness and he was troubled because the Philistines were coming to do battle with him. Samuel had been there in the past to help Saul, but Samuel had died; and so Saul goes to the witch at Endor. Saul was just in enormous spiritual trouble.

Saul is the one who had given the command that these enchanters or witches were not to be found within the land of Israel, and yet he himself goes to this woman. Then through some sort of witchcraft, Samuel is brought up; which is important language that indicates that this figure did come up as though it were below, and this is not where Heaven is. Heaven is above.

So this figure or this apparition, whatever it was that had appeared to this woman, was not Samuel. It was more likely Satan or one of the fallen angels giving an appearance of Samuel. Plus, it is not too hard for the statements to be made that had been made.

Look at what it says in 1Samuel 28:15-17. It says:

And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing JEHOVAH is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? And JEHOVAH hath done to him, as he spake by me: for JEHOVAH hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:

This was not any secret. This was why Saul was constantly pursuing after David. Through Samuel, God had already told Saul that He was going to give the kingdom to someone better then him, and Saul deduced that this person would be David.

Then we read in 1Samuel 28:18:

Because thou obeyedst not the voice of JEHOVAH, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath JEHOVAH done this thing unto thee this day.

Again, this was known because we read earlier in 1^st Samuel that God gave Saul instructions to utterly destroy Amalek and he failed to do this.

Then it says in 1Samuel 28:19-20:

Moreover JEHOVAH will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: JEHOVAH also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines. Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night.

The army of the Philistines had already gathered and it was not hard to figure out the way that things were going to go. Israel would be smitten before them and Saul would die in the battle.

In other words, the things that this spirit was saying – who supposedly was Samuel but was, in actuality, Satan or a fallen angel – were things that were already well-known or things that could easily be derived, since it was fairly obvious that these things would take place during the battle.

So it was all a show that was put on by Satan. When the statement was made, “to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me,” this was just indicating death, that Saul and his sons would die. Samuel was dead, but Samuel was not the one saying these things.

 

7^th Question: When I listened last week, you made the statement that we did not have to worry about the elect being saved if we somehow got it wrong as to whether or not it was the end of salvation. This statement implies that you might have a second opinion about this subject. Can you clarify?

Chris: What I was actually saying was that it is impossible for the elect to be hindered or hurt in any way. There is no way that an elect person could ever miss out on salvation.

I am looking at everything as much as I am able and I am praying for wisdom concerning where we are. I do not think that anyone understands what is going on today. But I think that we can be too hasty in making certain statements, and some have been too hasty.

It is uncomfortable to wait on the Lord and to be in a place where we do not fully know what He is doing, and I am referring to the timeline. Right now, I still believe that May 21 was Judgment Day. Everything seems to point to what that judgment was, which was the closing off of salvation.

This still seems to fit, but we are now in a point in time in this world when we are beyond the five months. We struggled with this for awhile and then we thought that we had an understanding that the five months was doubled, but we are now beyond the ten months (the five months doubled).

There is the possibility for the length of time that Noah was in the ark, but I do not see a lot of information confirming this possibility. We may continue on for some time; and so we have to ask the question: what is God doing? We then go to the Bible and we continue to study and to pray for wisdom.

I am open to correction on anything. It is not out of uncomfortableness or not out of going back to some understanding for the sake of going back to it in order to join in with everybody else. This is not what we do. We need direction from God one way or the other; and no one, up to this point, is providing that direction; or let me put it this way: God has not opened up that information as of yet. It could be that Judgment Day came and that it is just much longer than we had thought.

God has had these periods of time, like the 2300 evening/mornings when virtually no one was being saved. In all of the world, He also had a 23-year period (and now beyond that) in which no one was being saved in any of the churches.

He has also made statements that He forbid the sharing of the Gospel in Asia in the book of Acts, even during the church age, which meant that whole nations of generations of people – men, women, and children – would live their lives without hearing the Gospel and, therefore, without the possibility of salvation. We know that individuals in North and South America had no Gospel for centuries. Therefore, generations came and generations went with no possibility of salvation.

One of the things that I am looking at is whether or not this Judgment Day is longer or whether or not this is going to maybe last for years. What is God doing? We need to know.

What we are doing is that we are going to teach the Bible. If God saves, it will be through the hearing of His Word. We hope to be able to send out free Bibles to people who request them. We cannot do a better thing that this. If we are in a time when we are only feeding sheep, it is the Word of God that feeds sheep. If there is something that we are missing and if God is still somehow saving, He saves through His Word.

So I think that sending out Bibles is the perfect thing to do. We hope to be able to do this soon, and we will just keep praying.

Additional Comments: To be honest with you, since this topic should be the number one important thing that is on all of our minds, can you work extra hard at coming to a conclusion on this? I and I think that everyone else would appreciate this.

Chris: I know what you are saying; but, unfortunately, this is not a matter of diligence. Diligence plays a part in this and so does the time that is put into this topic, but we read Luke 24 earlier today during the Bible reading and it states, “Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,” and this is what it ultimately takes.

I actually was focused for a few weeks after Purim on just looking at all of the verses in Revelation 9 and in Matthew 24, going over it and over it and over it, and I got nowhere.

It is time to study 1^st Peter and, Lord willing, 1^st Samuel and to continually look at these other things, but we have to wait on the Lord.

Additional Comments: There is one last thing concerning sending out Bibles. Like you said, it is not a determination of diligence but whether or not the Lord opens our eyes to the issue. You had set a date for sending out the Bibles. If we still do not know the answer to this by then, what would be the purpose for sending out the Bibles? If someone wants a Bible, it is good to give it to them, but what is the purpose behind EBible sending them?

Chris: This is just what I was saying. We cannot do a better thing. But if there is no salvation, why send a Bible? We would do this because we are to feed sheep and we could not provide any better food for the sheep than the Bible.

So this accomplishes everything that we would want, whether we are here specifically to feed sheep or whether there is something that we have missed. How does God bring salvation? He brings it through His Word; and so the individual has the Bible and then God can do with His Word what He is going to do with it.