eBible Fellowship

1^st Question: In relation to the apocalypse and the four horsemen in the book of Revelation, there is one riding on a white horse, there is one on a red horse, etc. Can you tell me the meaning of these different horses?

Chris: Let us look in Revelation 6. It says in Revelation 6:2:

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

This is Christ. Later on in Revelation 19, He is seen on a white horse and white is the color for purity and for holiness; and so this is referring to the Lord Jesus. He is the One, of course, who sends the Gospel into the world; and the Gospel accomplishes God’s purpose and it conquers the kingdom of Satan.

So then it says in Revelation 6:3-4:

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth…

Who is peace but Christ? So Satan’s task or what he wants to do is to take Christ away? How could he do this? Christ is identified with the Word of God, the Bible. Christ is identified with truth. In some instances, the Word of God, the Bible, is not allowed in certain countries. In other instances where it is allowed in Christian nations, the truth is attacked. This is why there are all of the churches that have various doctrines and all of the false gospels. From the beginning and all the through the church age, Satan was taking peace from the earth.

Notice that it says in Revelation 6:4:

…that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

The sword identifies with the Word of God. Through his emissaries, Satan could enter into congregations and churches and he could develop false doctrines and false gospels. This is what takes peace and what takes Christ. There is no salvation where there is no truth.

So this was the rider on the red horse, but there is something interesting in the book of Zechariah. If you remember, we were led there by Esther’s name. Her Hebrew name is Hadassah, and the masculine form of Hadassah is hadac (had-as). We saw in Zechariah 1:7 that this picks up on the 24^th day of the 11^th month and that this was a period of five months after a period of 23 days. The 23 days represented the great tribulation and then there was this period of five months.

Then we read in Zechariah 1:8:

I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse…

Normally, we would think that this was referring to Satan; because in Revelation 6, Christ is on a white horse. Satan is on the red horse taking peace away. Notice that Satan’s task was to go forth with “a great sword.” He was really doing battle against Christ and the Kingdom of God in taking peace away. But now, let us see what Zechariah 1:8-11 continues on to say:

…and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white. Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will show thee what these be. And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom JEHOVAH hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth. And they answered the angel of JEHOVAH that stood among the myrtle trees…

If you follow this, the man “riding upon a red horse” is identified as “the angel of Jehovah,” which is God Himself, the Lord Jesus. So why is Jesus riding a red horse when He rode a white horse throughout the church age as He “went forth conquering, and to conquer”? This was because He did conquer.

We could go to Haggai to show this where there was a space of 23 days. At the end of Haggai 1, it was the 24^th day of the 6^th month – and Haggai and Zechariah were contemporaries. Then on the 24^th day of the 11^th month, five months later, we have victory. We find that the Lord Jesus has conquered Satan and has, therefore, taken his horse.

This is just like Cyrus who conquered Babylon and then took the title of “king of Babylon,” and you can read about this in the book of Ezra. Cyrus was a type of Christ, but he was called the king of Babylon. This is because, after Judgment Day, whatever was Satan’s became God’s; it became Christ’s. This is what we see in the book of Esther when the house of Haman is given to Mordecai.

Additional Comments: It seems confusing as if there is a contradiction with Christ riding on the red horse in Zechariah.

Chris: We would not understand this if not for the dating of the five months after the 23 days, which is identifying with this period of time.

Notice what God is indicating in Zechariah 1:11:

And they answered the angel of JEHOVAH that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.

This is because the warfare is done and the battle is over. Judgment Day has come. Satan has lost. Christ has been victorious.

This is just like Cyrus taking the kingdom after 70 years. There was no more battle with Babylon after that, even though with Daniel his tribulations did not stop – they increased. It was after that that Daniel was thrown into the den of lions; just as right now our tribulation has not really ended but it has intensified throughout this period of time.

Additional Comments: What do the pale horse and the black horse have to do with?

Chris: I would be talking from memory. I know that Mr. Camping has gone over this, but I do not remember exactly. I was glad when you stopped at the red and the white horse, but now you want to continue. We will just stop at the red and the white horse.

 

2^nd Question: In relation to what you had said earlier in that the Lord has a purpose for allowing a question to be asked, this reminded me of Matthew 24:3. Do you think that God had a purpose for allowing them to ask this question?

Chris: We read in Matthew 24:3:

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

God definitely moved them to ask this question. We know that “all scripture is given by inspiration of God” and that “holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” This is how every word of the Bible came to be. God moved them to say exactly what they said.

As so many in the church and now out of the church say that no man can know the day or the hour, here we see the perfect opportunity for God to answer the disciples’ question as they ask:

…Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus could have stopped it right there and said, “That is not for you to know. Do not get into that.” But what happens? Matthew 24:4-5 goes on to say:

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come…

Then He begins to give the signs of His coming: the multiplication of sin, the falling away, the false gospels, the abomination of desolation in the church. All of these are indicators so that we can know when this time arrives.

Basically, He is answering the disciples’ question. Even though He did not say, “Okay; here are the dates,” He is answering their question in the way that He does. He answers in difficult language.

3^rd Question (Continued from previous question): Could it also be possible that God also gave the Mayans a clue to the end of the world? He also made the Mayans.

Chris: No. On one hand, here is what we know about the Mayan’s and their calendar. Mr. Camping speculated about this and I think that this is probably accurate.

If you remember, the earth was divided in the days of Peleg. That goes back beyond 3000 B.C., maybe around 3100 B.C. when Peleg was alive. In Peleg’s lifetime, the earth was divided.

The earth used to be one continent. Then the continents began to shift and to move apart and to spread into the positions that they are now in; and that would have seemed catastrophic to anyone alive at that time.

We know how it was with the little tremor that we had this past year on the East Coast. Everyone was so shaken up by this, in a figurative way, and it only lasted for a few seconds.

Imagine something shaking everything and continuing to do so because the land is moving across the ocean basin. The continent itself was moving. We can imagine how much of an impression that would have made. And it just so happens that the Mayan calendar dates to around that period of time.

Only God could have done this. In the sense of God bringing that action of dividing the continents, He provoked them. God knew that the Mayan’s would then write this calendar and He also knew that it would expire in 2012.

Now we have a situation at this time where a lot of people in the world are going to search engines on their computers and they are searching things like “2012 – the end of the world.” It is all about the Mayan calendar, but this is an opportunity for God to direct them to information about Purim, to information concerning what we have been learning, and to information about the latest billboards, “March 2012 (Purim) END OF THE WORLD?” This is in their consciousness right now, especially after last year.

So I think that God is definitely using this, but the Mayan calendar is not inspired in any way. This is from the minds of men. December 2012 has nothing to do with anything, but God has simply used this like He has used so many things.

He can use this to help direct them, like He used radio itself. People turn the channel as they look for a rock and roll station. God developed the technology. He allowed musicians to develop songs that are not God-glorifying, but this leads people to the medium of radio. Then over the years in searching for rock and roll music, many people stumbled on Family Radio. It would be similar to that.

 

4^th Question: In seems like we have three dates for the end. We know in the book of Judges that Samson typifies Christ. Was Samson’s marriage consummated and do his marriages have any relation to these three dates?

Chris: Samson was only married once and I do not think that Samson’s women had anything to do with the number of times or of the number of dates that we have learned (1988, 1994, and 2011).

5^th Question (Continued from previous question): The riddles were set up by Samson and I do not think that giving the riddles were a sin. Even when they tried to guess his strength, it took them four tries.

Chris: We cannot look at things and take the number and then try to apply it on our own. God has to make the connections in order for it to be legitimate.

For example, there are emails going around where someone is taking Purim, then they are taking the length of time during the flood, and then they are taking this other thing. They are throwing them all together, basically like a mix-and-match, and then they are coming out with a date. But this is not how this is to be done. God will very exactly do something or He will not do it at all.

Additional Comments: But I am seeing that they were using the closest person to Samson to get the answer. We are getting the answer from the Bible because there is no more direct revelation.

Chris: There is spiritual meaning when Samson is being tempted by Delilah for him to tell her the secret of his strength. Samson finally does and then his hair is cut.

I think that a relationship could be made when God says to Jerusalem, “Cut off thine hair, O Jerusalem.” It could be a tie-in there, but it has nothing to do with the dates.

Additional Comments: The Bible says that Samson loved her. Samson’s wife pleased him. At least we are searching the Word for the riddle. It is like a riddle to be able to determine when the world is going to end.

Chris: The Bible is the riddle. You are right about that. God spoke in parables and that is exactly what a riddle is. You have to figure it out. That is the nature of the Bible.

Additional Comments: Since we are trying to get the answer from the Bible, this means that we truly trust the Bible.

Chris: Yes; we are looking to the Bible.

 

6^th Question: During the Friday question and answer session, a question was asked about Esther 7:8 and you said that you were looking into this. In Esther 5:10 and 6:13, Haman had called his wife and his friends. In Esther 6:13, Haman also called his wise men. They said that Haman had begun to fall, that he would not prevail, and that he would surely fall. Can you explain this and does this have anything to do with Haman falling upon the bed whereon Esther was?

Chris: We read in Esther 7:8:

Then the king returned out of the palace garden into the place of the banquet of wine; and Haman was fallen upon the bed whereon Esther was…

Yes; I think that God is really emphasizing that it is the time of Haman’s fall.

Remember that Proverbs 16:18 says:

Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Haman originally went into the king to request that Mordecai be hung. Then the king said, “What shall be done unto the man whom the king delighteth to honour?” Then Haman thought within himself, “To whom would the king delight to do honour more than to myself?”

Satan was very proud and very haughty, and then he went from the heights of the pinnacle of setting himself up to be like God – as he became the “man of sin” and took his seat his seat in the temple – to falling. Isaiah 14 tells us that he wanted to be like God. Then God takes his authority, his power, and his dominion away in one fell swoop on Judgment Day.

This is why we see this emphasis in Esther. Esther 6 is dealing with the 17^th day of the 2^nd month. Esther 7 is dealing with the same day. It is the Day of Judgment and that is why Haman was constantly falling.

Obadiah 1 is regarding Edom, but it has application here. It says in Obadiah 1:3-4:

The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground? Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith JEHOVAH.

This is exactly what God did to Satan, and so we have Haman spending a lot of time on the ground or the language of falling is applied to him on that particular day.

 

7^th Question: In 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, how do we know that “the day” is referring to Judgment Day?

Chris: 1 Corinthians 3:11-12 says:

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones…

This would be referring to the true believers, to those whom God has truly saved. Then it continues:

…wood, hay, stubble;

These would be the called or the professing believers who are not actually saved.

Then it says in 1 Corinthians 3:13:

Every man's work shall be made manifest…

Do you remember the word “manifest” as we were understanding Christ and what He had done in the tableau when He entered into the human race? He had finished the works before the foundation of the world. He was the Lamb slain before the world began, but He came into the world to “make manifest” that act; and the Bible says, “For whatsoever doth make manifest is light.” This is because the light shines and Jesus came as the “light of the world.” Christ made manifest throughout His time on earth as He lived out a tableau that showed exactly what He had done.

We are now in a time when God is saying that there are a great many people who profess to be Christians who are not. It is actually a great multitude, even though everyone may not have come to the point of a profession; but still, there is a great number of people and “every man's work shall be made manifest”; that is, the light must shine upon them to see whether they are “gold, silver, precious stones” or “wood, hay, stubble.”

This has already been done in the church. God gave them their test and there was a separation of the wheat and the tares. If they came out, it would give evidence that they might be wheat. If they remained, it gave evidence that they were tares bundled for the fire.

This separation in the church was already done; but here in 1 Corinthians 3:13, it states:

…for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Judgment Day is identified as a “day” and also as a time of “fire and brimstone,” a time of intense fire. This is what we are experiencing spiritually. It is the purification of the gold and silver.

If gold, silver, or precious stones go through a fire, does this harm them? No; it refines them and purifies them. It makes them better. If wood, hay, and stubble go through a time of fire, does this improve them? No; it destroys them.

So this is what God is doing; but it will always work out to the good of His elect, “All things work together for good to them that love God.” His people will be purified. They will be brought through the fire. But for anyone who is not His, this is the time to reveal this and to make this known and evident, to “make manifest.” This is what is going on now.

 

8^th Question: As the king’s commandment could not be overturned in Esther 8 and a new one had to be given, does this relate to Hebrews 8:7 where a new covenant was made and the old was done away with?

Chris: We read in Hebrews 8:7-8:

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them…

I think that Mr. Camping’s explanation for these verses is still accurate. The first covenant is referring to the Old Testament and the second covenant is referring to the New Testament, and yet God found fault with them both but not that there was any error. It was only in the sense that the first covenant was not clear.

In the first covenant, we read of sacrifices and ceremonial laws. It was many things like that where we could not see the Gospel except occasionally. Then God gave the new covenant or the New Testament that explained much of the Old Testament.

For instance, God explained Jesus as “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” This very vivid declaration that was made by John the Baptist explains the purpose behind the lambs that were offered; they were all pointing to Christ. They were typifying Him and His sacrifice.

But still, there were a great many things that we did not understand clearly. This is the fault, but it is not the fault of the Bible or of the covenants. The fault is on our end because of our inability to understand spiritual things. Because of this, God has to explain and explain and explain.

So He did to some degree; but He did not explain it completely until the time of the end, because the Scriptures were sealed up. Then at the end, He opened up the Scriptures and He opened up our understanding to them.

In this sense, this is what Hebrews 8 is talking about. Finally, God had a plan to reveal things that were not evident in the Bible itself but had to be spiritually searched out. They were hidden and He kept their true meaning under cover until the time of the great tribulation.

In 2 John and 3 John, we actually have a description of exactly what God has done when He says in 2 John 1:12:

Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink…

He was saying that He had many things to write but that He was not going to write them. Why not? The answer is because the book of Revelation closed the Bible.

Jesus also said in John 16:12:

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

The Bible was closed and God had established the law that He could not add to or subtract from the Bible. He could not write these things “with paper and ink.”

Then it goes on to say in 2 John 1:12:

…but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

God is using John here as a picture of Himself coming at the end of time when He will speak “face to face.”

3 John 1:13-14 says the same thing about the end:

I had many things to write, but I will not with ink and pen write unto thee: But I trust I shall shortly see thee, and we shall speak face to face…

If we go to Numbers 12, this is the account when Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses. God was angry with them and He comes to speak to them. It says in Numbers 12:6-8:

And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I JEHOVAH will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth…

I forgot to mention that I think “face to face” can be translated as “mouth to mouth.” It has been awhile since I looked at this. But anyway, if you are talking face to face or mouth to mouth, it is the exact same thing, right? You are staring at one another’s face.

It continues:

…I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches…

So this phrase, “I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face,” means that, at that time, He would make things plain and that He would give us an understanding of what has been hidden in the parables in the Bible, but He could not do this with ink and paper. The covenants had been given; the Bible is a closed canon. He could not write anything else; and so His plan was that He would open up the understanding of His people at the end, like He said to Daniel in Daniel 12.

 

9^th Question: In Luke 17:26, God says, “And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.” Why did God say “in the days of the Son of man”?

Chris: He was talking about the time before the flood, which were “the days of Noe [Noah],” and then the time before Christ’s coming that we are living in. For instance, it goes on to explain in Luke 17:27:

They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

So “the days” leading up to that day of the flood beginning and God shutting them in the ark is referred to as “so shall it be,” and we know exactly what God was saying.

We told the world that May 21 was the day that God put His finger on after 7,000 years from the flood. May 21 was the underlying Hebrew date that matched the very day that the flood began, but many people continued to eat and to drink and to marry. They just continued on with their lives.

There is nothing wrong with eating, drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, but this was basically language indicating that business was normal. This was the case before the flood. This was because what they heard did not impact them to the point where they went to God and cried out to Him.

It was the same thing leading up to May 21. A lot of people were uncomfortable with what they were hearing. They did not like it, but they continued on with their lives and they never became broken and humbled and went to God.

Additional Comments: My understanding is that it has always been “the days of the Son of man.” But as of today, why did He say “the days of the Son of man”?

Chris: I have not looked at that in particular.

10^th Question (Continued from previous question): The task of bringing the Gospel by God’s people came to an end, right?

Chris: Yes; it came to an end in relation to sowing seed in the hearts of men in order that it might take root and bring forth fruit. We do not do this anymore.

In sharing information about Purim, we are not warning people concerning Judgment Day. That is not the purpose, because they have already received that warning.

We are not sharing this so that people might become saved. We are just following the direction that God is giving us in the book of Esther to share this information. The “Jews” are the elect and they receive this as “glad tidings.”

Additional Comments: According to the book of Revelation, Jesus Christ has taken His power now over everybody. True believers are not to do any work of bringing the Gospel to the world.

Chris: I would say that the Gospel is whatever God says in His Word. We cannot just define this as “sharing information in order that people become saved.” The Gospel is sharing the truth, whatever the truth is. I would still say that we share the Gospel, but we do not share it in the sense of sowing seed in order for people to become saved, because we are in the Day of Judgment.

 

11^th Question: In Jeremiah 7:16, 11:14, and 14:11, we have three different verses but they all say the same thing. God told Jeremiah three different times not to pray for Israel as a congregation. But in Jeremiah 26:3, God told Jeremiah to go back and to warn the people again. Why was that?

Chris: We read in Jeremiah 26:1-3:

In the beginning of the reign of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah came this word from JEHOVAH, saying, Thus saith JEHOVAH; Stand in the court of JEHOVAH'S house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in JEHOVAH'S house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word: If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.

God sent Jeremiah to tell them that He was going to judge them because of their evil doings, which is exactly what the churches heard for years. But this does not mean that we had to go into the church. They heard this in various ways. It was on the radio. It was being taught through various ways. Historically, God allowed Jeremiah to do this because he was a representation of His Word that was bringing judgment upon the rebellious nation of Judah.

Additional Comments: So this does not mean that God’s people should go back to the church.

Chris: No; no. God is very clear about this. The Bible is very clear about this in Matthew 24. It says in Matthew 24:16-17:

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

In the Bible, the “housetop” is a place of intense spiritual activity. It is a place for prayer. They let one man down to Jesus through a housetop.

So we were to stay there during the great tribulation and continue to proclaim the Gospel. We were not to go down into the “house,” and the “house” was the church.

Then we read in Matthew 24:18 says:

Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

We were not to go back to the church for any garments or for any covering, as some might return to try to find a covering for their sins. Do not do that. God tells us, “Remember Lot's wife.”

 

12^th Question: Regarding the question of the days of Christ, I do not know the spiritual understanding, but it is just like Noah’s day was tied to Noah’s age and our day is tied to Christ.

Chris: Yes; this is AD 2012 or Anno Domini, “The year of Our Lord.”

 

13^th Question: In Genesis 19:9 where it says, “this one fellow,” are they talking about Lot? Does this compare to 2 Peter where the Bible says that Lot was vexed? Are they saying that Lot was the judge or are they saying this of the two who came into Lot’s house?

Chris: We read in Genesis 19:9:

And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.

Yes; they are talking about Lot. Lot was an important man. He had a lot of cattle. Remember that they divided because the land could not contain Lot and Abraham and their cattle, and so Lot chose Sodom.

Notice that when the angels come in, Lot is at the gate. Normally, it was people of prominence that sat at the gate of a city; and it sounds like there was a little envy that was coming through as they said:

…This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge…

Lot was a foreigner, but he came into their city and he had a position of some sort of power or authority.

14^th Question (Continued from previous question): Does this spiritually compare to the world saying that we were judging them prior to May 21 as we talked of the coming judgment? Are they saying that Lot was judging them for the things that they were doing?

Chris: That could be just based on what we read of Lot’s righteous soul dwelling among them. The verses that you are referring to are in 2 Peter 2:7-8:

And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

So Lot dwelt among them from day to day. When a believer is working side by side with an unbeliever, like maybe a neighbor, the believer is going to do things God’s way; and this shines the light on someone who is not doing things God’s way. This convicts them and they can feel judged. So, spiritually, it definitely could relate to that.

We will stop here.