eBible Fellowship

Chris: At this time, let me just quickly recap or go over and summarize these things. If there are any questions or comments about this or anything else, you are welcome to ask them or to make a comment.

We can see now from the Bible that it was God’s plan to double the payment upon Babylon. What is Babylon? Babylon is the kingdom of Satan in this world. Satan ruled over the unsaved in the world and the unsaved in the churches. Babylon represents that whole kingdom; and when it falls, it is pointing to May 21.

God highlighted Revelation 18:6 in a big way when He said “double” three times: “double unto her double…double.” Then in Revelation 18:7, which is the verse following, it says:

How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her…

This is the penalty and this is the judgment: five months of torment.

This is the same word that is found twice in Revelation 9:5. The word “torment” is found three times there; but in the Greek, one of them is a different number. The number 929 is found two times and the number 928 is found one time. These words are very closely related. They are basically the same word. “Tormented” is #928. “Torment” is #929 and that is the word that is also in Revelation 18:7.

So we read in Revelation 9:5:

And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

This is the penalty that God prescribes.

Look at Revelation 14 again in the context of Babylon having fallen. We read in Revelation 14:10:

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels [messengers], and in the presence of the Lamb:

So Judgment Day came. Five months of torment began on the 17^th day of the 2^nd month of the Hebrew calendar, and the torment continued for five months until the 17^th day of the 7^th month of the Hebrew calendar. Of course, this makes sense. God just followed the same calendar. Then what happened on the 17^th day of the 7^th month? He did it again. He doubled it.

So what we read in Revelation 9 concerning the nature of the five months is true of ten months. We were wondering what was going on since we are beyond the five-month period. But all that we understood for the five months applies for this whole period of time until the last day of the Feast of Purim when the ten months ends.

That five-month period, which was 2/17 through 7/17 of the Hebrew calendar, works out to 147 days, which is 3x7x7. On 7/17 (of the Hebrew calendar), because this is the date that God gave us, it concludes the first period of five months. Then through Adar 15, which is March 9^th of our calendar, is another 147 days; and we can also see in the Hebrew calendar that this is the same length of time as the first five months, but it does not go until the 17^th. It falls on the Hebrew 12^th month (Adar) and the 15^th day (March 9^th).

Any questions or comments?

 

1^st Question: The Lord locks in all of these different time paths to May 21. Do you have any time paths that lock in Purim from May 21?

Chris: That comes from the book of Esther. When God points out that Haman was slain and that Mordecai was given his house, Haman was humiliated and Mordecai was exalted. Since this was all happening on the 17^th day of the 2^nd month, this identifies with May 21, and yet the story continues up to a day of destruction, which was almost ten months later.

Since that was 2/17, do we not actually have a similar thing in the book of Esther? That was 2/17 and Purim is Adar 13, 14, and 15. I have not looked at the number of days in that particular year, but we can see how that is almost a precise ten months from the calendar start date to the last day of destruction. So we do probably have a replica.

We are seeing so many tie-ins with Israel represented by Vashti. The gathering of the virgins typified the church age. There is a spiritual chronology. There was the death of the doorkeepers representing the end of the church age. Haman’s promotion indicated Satan’s loosing. Even the proclamation of the day chosen by lot for the destruction of the Jews, which was Purim, related to sending out the May 21 message.

It really is following a spiritual chronology like no other book in the Bible that I have seen, and that chronology now goes from that date (the 17^th day of the 2^nd month) to ten months to the day of destruction.

2^nd Question (Continued from previous question): Is there any spiritual meaning in the number of days from May 21 to Purim?

Chris: We have 294 days with the 147 and the other 147. So the breakdown is 3x7x7 and then you do this again – 3x7x7 (3x7x7 and 3x7x7). The number 7 has to do with perfection. The number 3 has to do with purpose. So this could be pointing to God bringing His people to perfection, but I am not really sure about this. But after 7,000 years, He is emphasizing that number 7.

 

3^rd Question: Can you explain how this understanding of October 21 affects the “woes” in Revelation 9 and so forth?

Chris: In Revelation 9, we were wondering about the woes because we had gone beyond the five months. For instance, we read in Revelation 9:12:

One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

So we were thinking that this related to the period of time that we are in; but, actually, it just does not fit. No matter how many times we looked at this, when we read the account of the loosing of the 200 million horsemen, that also identifies with May 21, even the description of them.

Remember what we read of the locusts in Revelation 9:7 and 10:

And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle…And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

When we read after the first woe about the loosing of the four messengers in the Euphrates and then the 200 million army of horsemen, notice how God describes them in Revelation 9:19:

For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

Serpents and scorpions are basically synonymous. Jesus said, “I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions.” Both terms relate to false gospels.

How could they identify with true believers? They do because what do all false gospels have in common? They have no salvation.

This is the harmful message that the scorpions are bringing. This is the harmful message that the locusts are bringing. And the 200 million point to the sum total of all of God’s elect because once they are saved and loosed out of prison from their spiritual captivity, that final act of salvation on God’s part to save the last of His elect is what brings this judgment on the world.

So, basically, what we learned about Revelation 9 was correct. We just have to extend it until the Feast of Purim. What is true of the five months is also true of the ten months.

 

4^th Question: In relation to Matthew 24:43, is Christ’s coming likened unto several watches that we must watch for, like the scenario of the boy who cried wolf or like a pregnancy that has a few false labors before the child finally comes?

Chris: Matthew 24:43 says:

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

On one hand, we have already known. We were saying that this would be May 21, and that was the day that God came in judgment.

God’s people were fully aware of this. We were able to discern time and judgment, although we are not perfect and do not have perfect understanding. We had some things incorrect. But then when things do not work out, we go back to the Bible and learn, “Oh, now I understand why.” It is because we are imperfect.

Regarding what watch, it is also possible that this is referring to the actual return of Christ on the very last day at the end of the world. But we cannot forget the verse in Revelation 3:3, which says:

…If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

The implication of this is that if we do not watch, we will not know. What is the implication of if we do watch? If we do watch, we will know.

We are very familiar with these verses. We do not have to go back over all of this and try to convince anyone. There is no need for that.

In sharing this information, we are not trying to open up anyone’s eyes. They are either already opened or they are already closed. We are not trying to warn anyone about judgment, because judgment has already come. The purpose in sharing this is to encourage the hearts of God’s children. It is actually just a continuance of feeding sheep.

Just look at the language in the book of Esther when they hear information concerning a change in Purim, that date that was chosen by lot. It says in Esther 8:16-17:

The Jews had light, and gladness, and joy, and honour. And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

So this is just a great encouragement to God’s people when they find out that there is a day coming in which all of their enemies will be destroyed, rather than they themselves, and that it will be a day of rest.

There is a tremendous weariness right now for God’s people, and so a day of rest will bring joy to their hearts.

 

5^th Question: I was wondering if you could turn to 1 Samuel 25:8? Does this verse fit?

Chris: We read in 1 Samuel 25:8:

Ask thy young men, and they will show thee. Wherefore let the young men find favour in thine eyes: for we come in a good day: give, I pray thee, whatsoever cometh to thine hand unto thy servants, and to thy son David.

This was when David and his men were watching the sheep of a man by the name of Nabal whose sheep were in the wilderness. They protected his sheep, helped his shepherds, and returned the sheep safely home.

David was basically saying, “Look, we helped you, so can you provide us some food and provide for our army?”

Then we read in 1 Samuel 25:10-12:

And Nabal answered David's servants, and said, Who is David? and who is the son of Jesse? there be many servants now a days that break away every man from his master. Shall I then take my bread, and my water, and my flesh that I have killed for my shearers, and give it unto men, whom I know not whence they be? So David's young men turned their way, and went again, and came and told him all those sayings.

So David was furious and they were about ready to attack Nabal and to destroy him and all who were with him, but Nabal’s wife Abigail realized what had happened. One of the servants told her of her husband Nabal, “He is such a son of Belial, that a man cannot speak to him.”

Abigail quickly got some food together and took off and went to David right before David and his army was about to destroy them. She presents this to David and apologizes and beseeches him not to do them harm, and then she calls her husband a fool, which was what his name meant. “Nabal” meant “fool.”

We can learn from this, not that wives can legitimately call their husbands “fools” to other people, but who David represents. Who does he represent? David represents Christ.

Abigail was a believer, and so a believer can go to God and share whatever is on our heart. We can even say, “My husband does foolish things; he does this and he does that,” but I am sure that God would teach us not to use that kind of language about our spouses. Even if your spouse is a fool, you are to treat them with respect and dignity. So this was the historical situation.

Additional Questions or Comments: Is this a tie-in with Esther 8:17?

Chris: Do you mean because they found favor?

Additional Comments: Yes.

Chris: They were requesting to find favor. Maybe you are looking at the phrase, “for we come in a good day.” But other than that, I do not think that this relates.

 

6^th Question: Last week from the Internet, someone stated that date setting was blaspheming the Holy Ghost. I remember that brother Camping pointed out that blaspheming the Holy Ghost is narrowly defined. Can you look at this in Mark 3:29-30, which defines this? I think that those people should just say that it is blasphemy but not blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Chris: We read in Mark 3:29-30:

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

If they believe that, I can see what you are saying.

7^th Question (Continued from previous question): Mark 3:29 says “hath never forgiveness,” but then it follows with “is in danger.” Can you explain that?

Chris: If you look up the word “in danger of,” it is word that is translated somewhere else as “guilty of.”

Additional Comments: So they are guilty and they also have no forgiveness.

Chris: Here is how we have to understand this. God was actually using these men to typify the corporate churches, because the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is a corporate sin. This is why you will never meet an individual person who has committed this sin.

What happened with Israel? What happened at the time that Christ was among them and they finally brought Him to trial and turned Him over to the Roman authorities to be crucified?

They were basically saying, “He is not of God; He is of the devil.” Their leaders were saying this.

But what also took place when Christ was on the cross? The veil of the temple was rent. From that moment on within a synagogue or within the worship system of Israel, could anyone ever become saved again? No. There has been “never forgiveness” through the medium of the Jewish faith since Christ went to the cross. Since they made that decision that He was not of God, God divorced them and put them aside; and there is now never forgiveness for them.

Does this mean that no Jews can become saved? No; it does not mean that. Even the Apostle Paul defines himself later as someone “who was before a blasphemer.”

Paul went around hailing men and women and throwing them into prison, compelling them to renounce their beliefs even to the point of death. What did he think? What are you thinking if you think that someone is of another gospel? What do we think today if someone is of another Gospel? Who is behind that other gospel? Satan is. Obviously, Paul was thinking that if Jesus was not from God, He was from Satan; but that did not mean that Paul could not find forgiveness for his blasphemy.

So Jesus used these men as an example, but it was pointing to Israel’s denial of Christ. Likewise at the end of the church age, God opened up all kinds of Scriptures. The churches and congregations heard that the church age was over and that it was time to come out of the churches, and the corporate body had another decision to make, another milestone, another fork in the road, “Which way do we go?” If they stayed in their church starting from May 21, 1988, there was “never forgiveness.” But if anyone would have come out during the great tribulation, they also could have been saved outside of the church.

This was why Mr. Camping used this verse in Jeremiah 7. We read in Jeremiah 7:16:

Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

Mr. Camping related this to the churches but not to individuals. This did not mean that we were not to pray for an individual person. We were not to pray for the ministry of the church. The reason for this was because God was through with the church.

This language of “pray not thou for this people” is also used with the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit in 1 John. We read in 1 John 5:16:

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death…

Has anyone ever seen someone commit a sin “not unto death”? One sin is what? If we commit one sin, we have broken the whole Law and we are guilty of all and “the wages of sin is death.” What sin is not “unto death”? All sin us “unto death.”

What this is basically saying is that all sins can potentially be forgiven and are, therefore, “not unto death.” But on the other hand, if someone commits the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, there is “never forgiveness.” If someone commits that, they have committed a sin “unto death.”

Do you see the difference? This difference is emphasized in 1 John 5:16:

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

This is speaking of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and this was what Jeremiah 7 was pointing to, and this was what Mr. Camping identified with the churches but not with any individual. This is because the church (the corporate body) and Israel (the corporate institution) committed that sin when they came to a point when God was making a great change.

The leadership of national Israel (and the corporate church) led them away from God; and so God divorced Israel and He put away the church. Never again in Israel, even up until today, and never again in the church since 1988 is their forgiveness within their midst.

8^th Question (Continued from previous question): What is blaspheming the Son? Is it like someone saying, “Jesus was crazy” or “Jesus was just a man” or “Jesus was blasphemous”?

Chris: The emphasis was on blaspheming the Holy Ghost because it is the Holy Ghost who opens up truth and it is the Holy Ghost who shows us that Christ is the Saviour and that what Jesus was ministering in the first century was true and faithful. It is the Holy Ghost who shows us that God has opened up the Bible now during the great tribulation, that the church age is over and that we needed to get out.

So people come to a point like the Jews of old, “Do I trust the Pharisees, the scribes, the Sadducees? Do I trust the leadership?” There are actually arguments that we can read about in the Bible where they were arguing back and forth, “Christ is a good man. No; He has a devil. Who do I trust?”

Finally, the leadership of Israel went one way; and it was the same thing at the end of the church age. The churches have been saying, “No; God is with us.” But the Holy Spirit was teaching something very different. They cannot turn back from their choice now because it is settled and they have gone the wrong way.

9^th Question (Continued from previous question): After some Jewish people became believers of the Messiah, they felt guilty that they might have blasphemed the Holy Ghost, and yet they never said that Jesus was of the devil.

Chris: I do not think that you are getting the point. God is not holding an individual accountable for this sin. He held the corporate body of the nation of Israel accountable and He held the New Testament church accountable. People can only be guilty individually, like Paul who was a Jew who blasphemed…

Additional Questions or Comments: Did Paul blaspheme the Holy Ghost or did he blaspheme the Son? The Lord says that there is forgiveness with blaspheming the Son.

Chris: Christ and the Father and the Holy Ghost are all One. The point is that God does not say to an individual, “You committed that one particular sin; therefore, there is never any possibility that you can be saved.”

Additional Questions or Comments: But Brother Camping said that there was nobody committing this particular sin; and so, apparently, this was directed personally to the Pharisees.

Chris: And he was correct because this does not apply to a single individual. The Pharisees were used as representatives of the nation of Israel.

 

10^th Question: In Luke 17:26,28, the Lord Jesus tied the event of Noah’s day and Lot’s day to the end of the world. Noah knew exactly the date that the flood would come. Abraham also knew the day that God would destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. In relation to this, the verses that I would like you to explain are Amos 3:7, 1 Thessalonians 5:4, and Revelation 3:3.

Chris: We read in Amos 3:7:

Surely the Lord JEHOVAH will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

And we read in 1 Thessalonians 5:4:

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Starting in the middle of this verse, we read in Revelation 3:3:

…If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

This is what we were declaring for some time in that “a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment” and that it is God’s plan to reveal information concerning judgment before He brings judgment about.

We have many historical examples. You mentioned some. Before the flood, God forewarned Noah. He forewarned Lot to get out of Sodom. Before that, He told Abraham what he was about to do so that Abraham could intercede, and so on. He also sent Jonah to Nineveh.

We have gone over these things many, many times and these verses are still there, but people cannot see this judgment, which is a dangerous thing. The Bible is a spiritual Book and God brings spiritual judgment. We know that in the Garden of Eden, He told them, “In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” They did not die physically; but, spiritually, they did; and yet God did not make a distinction there. He did not spell this out. He does not always spell it out for us.

What about the end of the church age? We learned that on May 21, 1988, the Holy Spirit came out of the midst and that Satan “the man of sin” and the “abomination of desolation” entered in.

Did anybody see that? Could you see that? Could you tell from one day to the next whether or not the Holy Spirit was there or whether or not Satan was there? How about throughout the whole 23 years?

The Bible’s language is that it is a desolation and that there is a spiritual famine going on in the corporate body. Nobody can see this, although we did begin to see the church falling away. But, still, it was a spiritual judgment. This was what God did and He was really following suit with many things when He brought judgment on May 21.

Just look at this from His vantage point. Step back. Imagine that it is your plan to try the faith of all sorts of people. Some will say that we were tried leading up to May 21 because there was a lot of shame involved with carrying signs and wearing the shirts and the ridicule of our friends, and so forth.

This is true. There was, but there were also some who just kind of joined up; and it is God’s plan to purify the gold and silver, to try the faith of those who professed to be His people. What better way to do this than to have these individuals proclaim “Judgment Day” and it actually be Judgment Day but in a spiritual sense where He closes the door of salvation but have nothing physical happen or nothing anyone’s eye could see?

Since this is by faith and faith is a spiritual thing and since faith is belief in things that are not seen, God’s people stand. But all of us were confused, many were shaken, and we were all wondering about this. This, however, is where God’s people stay. They might be confused and they may not know what is going on, but that is waiting on the Lord.

On the other hand, it was at this point that many basically joined up with the other side. They joined those who were saying, “You cannot know the day or hour.” But we discussed this for how long? We looked at verse after verse. How can anyone ever say this when we talked about this for years?

Again and again, the Bible shows that God’s people will know, but this is where these people were tested. Where the real test comes in is when people are not waiting for God to open up more information. Instead of waiting, people began to say that nothing happened; but they are disregarding tremendous amounts of Biblical information when they say this. Yet they are not saying that nothing happened and then presenting a Biblical study to prove this.

They made this conclusion based on their eye; it is based on what they did not see and they believe this is why nothing happened. But this is a dangerous thing. This is how the world responded. What was the world’s response? Their response was, “Nothing happened!”

So people are basically going with their feelings and with their thinking and with what their eye sees, yet God’s people do not do this. It has been a pleasure to find more and more people who have been waiting. They have just been waiting on the Lord, knowing that He does all things well and that He will give further information; and He has done this.

Additional Questions or Comments: Yes; well explained; but my point is that based on these two events, Noah’s day and Lot’s day, God’s people must expect that they will know and that God will tell them the exact day that the world will end. This was my point.

Chris: Yes; and we are looking to a date. We are looking to a date that is coming from the Bible and it is coming pretty clearly.

Additional Questions or Comments: We misunderstood some things, but we still must expect that God will tell His elect the day that He will return.

Chris: Yes; I think that you are right.

 

11^th Question: Does Hosea 6:2 relate to the three-day Feast of Purim?

Chris: We read in Hosea 6:2:

After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

I do not know how we could make that connection. Purim is a three-day feast, but we cannot just look at something and make a connection. The Bible has to make the connection, and so we would have to find a word or an idea somewhere else that would link the two together.

 

12^th Question: In Esther 6:4-5, Haman is in the outer court and is allowed to come into the king’s house. You explained this in your last study, but can you go over this again?

Chris: We read in Esther 6:4-5:

And the king said, Who is in the court? Now Haman was come into the outward court of the king's house, to speak unto the king to hang Mordecai on the gallows that he had prepared for him. And the king's servants said unto him, Behold, Haman standeth in the court. And the king said, Let him come in.

Is it not interesting where Haman is on the 17^th day of the 2^nd month? He was in the outer court.

Revelation 11:2 tells us:

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

“Forty and two months” is another figure of speech to typify the length of the great tribulation.

Basically, Satan’s post was in the outer court during the great tribulation. Then we come to the 17^th day of the 2^nd month, May 21, the last day of that great tribulation, which is what this is pointing to, and now it is time to judge Satan. He had been given authority, as Haman had been advanced and promoted.

So the judgment begins now and where is Haman located? He is right in the outer court. Then the king has Haman brought in, and Haman has all sorts of wild ideas in his mind, especially when the king speaks of, “What shall be done unto the man whom the king delighteth to honour?” This is when Haman thinks pridefully, “To whom would the king delight to do honour more than to myself?”

We can imagine the self-deception that Satan is under. Is it really possible that Satan thought that somehow God would exalt him even higher? Yes; after all, God loosed him. It was God who put him in the church. God called Nebuchadnezzar, “My servant,” which typified Satan’s service in bringing destruction, and Satan did a good job. Satan did a very good job.

We can never underestimate the degree to which people can deceive themselves. Right? People live all kinds of lives in rebellion against God, but then they think at the end that they are going to go to Heaven. That is a natural way to think amongst men.

There is no basis for this, and yet they somehow feel that God is favorable to them. Satan perhaps is no different, even though he is wicked, and God is bringing him in in order to bring the judgment upon him. That is what is in view here.

 

13^th Question: Moses raised a serpent on a pole and declared that all who would look on it would be saved from death. Is there a similarity between this and Esther where those who came into the inner court without being called would be put to death unless the king had held out the golden scepter?

Chris: Only in that the scepter and the brazen serpent typify Christ. It is true that if we enter into the inner chamber of God, it is certain death because of our sins; but the scepter is used in the Bible to represent the righteousness of Christ, like it says in Hebrews 1:8:

…a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

When Esther touches the scepter, it is as though she is now permitted before the King because she has been made righteous by Christ.

This is how we can all enter into prayer with God. We can go boldly to the throne of grace. But do we go on our own and say, “O God, hear me; here is my request; save me for my own sake because I am a good person,” or, “Save my family because they are decent people”?

No; the situation for the believer is always in this way, “O Lord, have mercy on me for what Christ has done; have mercy on my children, may You have paid the penalty for them; may You have given them Your righteousness.”

We will stop here.